Skills rebalance proposal

From wiki.phoenixpoint.com
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Mentaculus.png
Getting Started
Geoscape
Combat
Character Development
Classes and Skills
Mission Types
Final Mission (Spoiler!)

Skills rebalance proposal

Introduction and purpose

This document is solely for discussion purposes among players, primarily in the Community Council. This an attempt at identifying OP skills, describing why they are OP and presenting suggestions.

Summary

  1. Assault Assault: changes to Ready for Action, Onslaught and Rapid Clearance
  2. Heavy training.png Heavy: problem with War Cry, changes to Boom Blast
  3. Sniper training.pngSniper: changes to Quick Aim
  4. Berserker training.png Berserker: general comment on class as inadequate for melee
  5. Infiltrator training.png Infiltrator: changes to Sneak Attack
  6. Technician training.png Technician: changes to Manual Control
  7. Priest training.png Priest: changes to Frenzy

Belial's list of grievances

as a framework

  1. #Rapid Clearance
  2. #Boom Blast
  3. #Bloodlust
  4. #Adrenaline Rush
  5. #Manual Control
  6. #Onslaught
  7. #Ready for Action
  8. #Brawler
  9. #Quick Aim
  10. #Sneak Attack
  11. #Frenzy: Max SPD in Phoenix Point is 29 (Agile Legs, Akatsu Armor, Thief, Quaterback) is further amplified by this. Nets +100% speed coupled with bloodlust and even more with Dash.

Warcry: Too easy to cripple enemies from safe spots like through roofs and walls. Too effective vs Skyllas.


Rage Burst: Too effective vs Skyllas, not good vs at all vs multiple smaller enemies. Only effective at very close ranges.


Master Marksman: Very large ACC bonus compared to other sources like Armor and General Perks which have been nerfed in Polaris.

Marked For Death: Too strong on Deceptor with Rage Burst or Scorcher AT with Remote Control.

Destiny: Precision surpassing all sniper weapons in the game. Would that feel okay if used against player?

Gorgon: Damage per AP is too big

Fire: AI commits suicide in fire.

Bionics: Too powerful with almost no drawbacks

Melee weapons: Unless you use Vengeance Torso fall behind Bash in terms of damage.

Perception: Is too high for humans.

Stealth: easy to abuse. Too strong with Sneak Attack.

Will gain/loss: Most skills pay for themself when used to kill enemies.

Nanotech: Makes some enemy weapons completely ineffective.

Cover: Most enemies are melee/psychic/explosive/high mobility - cover does not protect vs majority of opponents.

Acid Cannon: Bad in general, very OP vs Skylla.

Scorcher: Extremely high damage output amplified by Marked for Death and Remote Control.

VENGEANCE TORSO: Very powerful synergy with Rapid Clearance. Makes Synedrion (or NJ?) “The Melee” faction, where it should be disciples

Venom Torso: Poison arm is very weak and losing hand is a huge debuff.

Bash and melee

Issues

In progress

Bash and melee can deal too much damage when compared to other types of attack

Bash (30 STR, using heavy weapon) Bash (35 STR, using heavy weapon) Melee (Marduk's Fist) Melee (Marduk's Fist + Vengeance Torso) Deceptor
Base damage per AP 150 175 80 160 140
+50% from Brawler.png brawler 225 263 120 240 -
+20% from Close Quarters Specialist Close Quarters Specialist 195 210 104 208 -
Brawler.png + Close Quarters Specialist 255 298 136 272 -
+50% from Bloodlust bloodlust 225 263 120 240 210
Brawler.png + Close Quarters Specialist + Bloodlust 330 385 176 352 210
+10% from Reckless.png reckless 165 193 88 176 154
Brawler.png + Close Quarters Specialist + Bloodlust+ Reckless.png 345 403 184 368 224
+10% from vivisection research 165 193 88 176 154
Brawler.png + Close Quarters Specialist + Bloodlust+ Reckless.png + vivisection research 380 443 203 405 246
+10% from Moon Data analysis 165 193 88 176 154
Brawler.png + Close Quarters Specialist + Bloodlust+ Reckless.png + vivisection research + Moon Data analysis 418 487 222 445 271
+10 damage per attack from Mark for Death mark for death 160 185 85 170 180
Brawler.png + Close Quarters Specialist + Bloodlust+ Reckless.png + vivisection research + Moon Data analysis +Mark for Death 428 497 232 455 311
  • Melee can benefit from Sneak Attack sneak attack, but not so bash, which means that melee can get can additional +50% (Sneak Attack has to replace either Brawler.png or Bloodlust), to a maximum multiplier of 3.36

Assault Assault

- Proficient with assault rifles and shotguns (complete list here)

Dash Dash

Move up to 1/2 of the movement of the character (3WP and 1AP; limited to 2 uses per turn) (e.g. with a movement stat of 20, a soldier can move 10 tiles casting Dash)

Return Fire Return Fire

Shoot back at an enemy when it attacks, provided that character is using a direct-fire projectile weapon with proficiency, and the enemy is within half perception range (passive skill)


Ready for action.pngReady for Action

Reloading and inventory management costs 0 AP (passive skill)

Issues

Some of us find it immersion breaking that this skill can be used to allow operatives closely packed together to share a single weapon and to reload it for free. Some of us don't see an issue with this.

For those who do see a problem, the issue is that all manipulation of inventory, whether giving or receiving items is done at 0 AP cost. This is what creates a situation where the operative can get a weapon from soldier A, reload it, give it to solder B, who will fire it, then the operative will take it, reload it, and pass it on to soldier C, without anybody using up any time (or paying AP) for equipment sharing.

Suggested change

Reloading and inventory management of the operative costs 0 AP (passive skill)

Alternative:

Reloading and, inventory management of the operative and giving items to other characters costs 0 AP (passive skill)

Onslaught Onslaught

Refunds 2AP to another operative within 10 tiles, can only be used once per turn by the same soldier (cost 4WP and 2AP)

Issues

The same character can be the recipient of multiple castings of the skill by different soldiers ("Cheerleading"). This is immersion breaking, because a single soldier ends up with 8 AP or more (where is that time coming from?), and somewhat OP, in that you can channel AP towards an Uber soldier that can optimize their utility.

Suggested change

Refunds 2AP to another operative within 10 tiles, can only be used once per turn by the same and on the same soldier (cost 4WP and 2AP)

Alternative:

Refunds 2AP to another operative within 10 tiles, can only be used once per turn by the same on the same soldier (cost 4WP and 2AP)

Reasoning: no reason to stop an operative from casting the skill twice, if each time it is cast on a different soldier

Rapid Clearance Rapid Clearance

Get back 2 AP for each kill until the end of the turn (cost 5WP)

Issues

The skill can be used to gain more AP than those spent on the kill (particularly when combined with other skills such as Adrenaline Rush, Quick Aim and Boom Blast, and the Vengeance Torso), which results in very long "kill chains", up to cases where an operative can singlehandedly clear the whole map.

This trivializes the challenge and breaks immersion.

Some of us feel that even when the skill does not refund more AP than those spend on the skill, it can still be too strong with high mobility builds that take advantage of damage buffs and skills that reduce AP costs.

Suggested Changes

Until the end of the turn, the next attack after a kill costs 2 AP less

Reasoning: prevents net generation of AP from kills

Alternative:

Until the end of the turn, the next attack after a kill costs 2 AP less, can't use any skills or abilities that cost WP after casting it

Reasoning: skill too strong already, synergies with other skills can be OP

Heavy training.png Heavy

- Proficient with machine guns, cannons and grenade launchers (see complete list here)

Brawler Brawler

Bash and melee attacks deal 50% more damage (passive skill)

Issues

This skill is not useful to Heavy outside of meta builds, either 'basher' (more on that below) or meta multi-class melee builds where this skill is used to buff melee damage (for example, Assault/Heavy, or Infiltrator/Heavy, either of them in combination with Vengeance Torso).

Bashing can deal too much damage when compared to melee (see #Bash and melee), which is unintuitive, as a proficient and dedicated melee strike should deal more damage than a bash, and when compared to the DPS of a Heavy weapon (more often than not clubbing with a heavy weapon is preferable to shooting with it), and the drawback for bashing - damage to the weapon - is insufficient to compensate for the much higher DPS.

Some of us think that this is because damage to the weapon is not sufficient (25% of damage dealt - 20, for armor of the weapon); as weapons get repaired for free after the mission this drawback would only be effective if there was substantial risk that the weapon would be destroyed. Some of us think that damage to the weapon is not enough of a drawback, as it can be avoided by carrying many weapons.

Summing up, this is another skill (like #Bloodlust and #Adrenaline Rush) that is not useful for the class when played outside of meta and too useful as a meta ingredient.

Suggested change

Some of us feel that the skill should be removed and replaced with something else. It doesn't really fit the sandbox approach where all skills are useful to all classes, since it's only useful for melee. It's also singularly uninteresting, being a straight, unconditional buff to damage. Some of us think that it should be at least moved to Berserker, as it would fit its nominal role.

Just a suggestion for a heavy-oriented skill:

%50 acc boost for heavy weapons, cannot use any skill, need one AP to get out of the ancor stance. Only works with heavy armor

War Cry War Cry

Limits the AP of all enemies within 10 tiles to 2 (3WP 1AP)

Problems: it is OP and immersion breaking that the skill affects large Pandorans, particularly Scylla, and that it works through any wall or obstacle.

Boom Blast Boom Blast

Reduces the cost of using explosives by 1 AP and increases their range by 50% until the end of the turn (5WP)

Issues

Explosives can be particularly powerful weapons because they do blast (and typically shred) damage, have area of effect and don't require Line of Sight. They also scale too well with damage buffs, such as those from Sneak Attack and Bloodlust.

This skill allows a single operative to use a grenade launcher and a mounted weapon, or throw up to 4 grenades and use a mounted weapon or shot the Vidar launcher an unlimited number of times (when used together with Ready for Action), in a single turn, at very long range.

It also allows reloading grenade and rocket launchers, and firing Destiny III for 0 AP.

This trivializes the challenge, making the game too easy.

There is general agreement that being able to use explosive weapons (and Destiny III) for 0 AP is most responsible for this.

There is some discussion as to whether the extra 50% range plays a relevant role, or the ability to deliver a large number of explosives at different points on the map very accurately (as with grenades using a high-strength build).

Suggested change

Reduces the cost of using explosives by 1 AP to a minimum of 1 and increases their range by 50% until the end of the turn (5WP)

Reasoning: prevents using mounted weapons or Vidar Launcher for 0 AP

Alternative

The AP cost of the next use of explosives is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1 and their range is increased by 50%, limited to 2 uses per turn (3WP)

Reasoning: prevents using mounted weapons or Vidar Launcher for 0 AP and limits the number of explosive that can be used per turn

Inspire Inspire

Killing an enemy grants allies 1 additional WP (passive skill)

Rage Burst Rage Burst

Fire the weapon 5 times in an arc, limited to one use per turn by the same soldier (5WP + standard AP cost of firing the weapon)

SniperSniper

- Proficient with sniper rifles and pistols (see complete list here).


Extreme focus.png Extreme Focus

Overwatch cost is reduced by 1 action point(passive skill)


Quick Aim Quick Aim

The AP cost of the next shot with proficient weapon is reduced by 1 (3WP)

Issues

There is general agreement that

  1. Allowing an unlimited number of 0 AP attacks is bad because they are free attacks, which can make the game too easy. However, some of us think that discretionary (on the player's turn) free attacks are always bad, while some of us think that what's bad is that they are unlimited.
  2. The skill is too spammable: it can be used any number of times, the cost is easy to recover and there is no reason not to use it every time as a means of increasing damage output by up to a 100% (for 2 AP weapons, or if considering 3AP weapons used twice in the same turn); optimal choice is no choice, no choice means no tactics.

Suggested change

The AP cost of the next shot with proficient weapon is reduced by 1 (3WP), limited to 2 uses per turn

Reasoning: prevents spamming the skill with 1AP weapons to get free attacks, but allows the most common use of the skill to shoot twice with a sniper rifle per turn and keeps a limited synergy with 1 AP weapons; also similar solution to dash, so easy to understand

Alternative

The AP cost of the next shot with proficient weapon is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1(3WP)

Reasoning: prevents getting free attacks altogether, but allows the most common use of the skill to shoot twice with a sniper rifle per turn

Note that some of us feel that these suggestions, though improving the skill overall, don't address the fact that casting it is a "no brainer" because of how easy it is to recover WP in the game.

Master Marksman Master Marksman

Accuracy with a proficient weapon is increased by 30% while there are no spotted enemies within 10 tiles (passive skill)


Weak Spot Weak Spot

Disabling a body part also remove that body part's armor (passive skill)


Mark for Death Mark for Death

Increases damage suffered by the target by 10 from each hit until the end of the turn (4WP)

Berserker training.png Berserker

General comment: There seems to be close to universal agreement that Berserker's skillset is uniquely unsuited for its nominal role of melee fighter (see here in my description of the class my personal view on why this is the case)


Armor Break Armor Break

Next attack will shred an additional 30 armor (4WP)


Close Quarters Evade Close Quarters Evade

Attacks from enemies within 10 tiles deal 25% less damage (passive skill)


Bloodlust Bloodlust

Damage and movement are increased proportionally to the health lost (up to double) (passive)

Issues

There are several problems with this skill, directly connected to the general problem with the class as a whole, in that its skillset is inadequate for its enunciated role (melee fighter).

  1. There is general agreement that there are problems with the way the skill is triggered and the speed and damage buffs obtained; nobody likes that the damage and speed buffs can be triggered by friendly fire or not healing the Berserker between missions, but for different reasons:
    1. Some of us don't like that the only way to control the amount of HP lost is through friendly fire/not healing the Berserker between missions, as this makes the skill less useful unless you attack your own operative, which some players are reluctant to do and is immersion breaking (how can the soldier remain under the effects of Bloodlust for an injury suffered a month ago?). At the same time, some of us feel that being able to control the amount of HP lost makes the condition to obtain the benefits of the skill trivial.
    2. Some of us feel that the game ordinarily doesn't favor having an operative with low HP: it's too risky, as there are no bleed out mechanics, using the skill for melee is a sure way of getting the Berserker killed. However, some of us think that the skill could work for melee as a high risk high reward proposition, but that right now it's an unattractive option because the skill works just as well with ranged attacks without any risk.
  2. There is also general agreement that the speed and damage buff can be abused in a meta build, particularly using other skills that further increase damage (Sneak Attack, Brawler) or Speed (Frenzy), and those that allow recovering AP (Rapid Clearance and Onslaught), as well as skills that reduce AP cost of attacks (Adrenaline Rush, Boom Blast, Quick Aim and Rage Burst).
  3. The general feeling is that this skill is not very useful unless employed as an ingredient in a meta-build, in which case it is very much OP.

Suggested change

A variety of very diverse changes may be suggested, but the general consensus is that a serious discussion has to be preceded by a clear indication whether the Berserker class and/or this skill in particular can be geared specifically towards a melee role, or whether it has to stay as it is now; an abstraction that could be potentially useful for any class/build.

Ignore Pain Ignore pain

Disabled body parts remain functional. Cannot Panic or be Mind Controlled (passive)


Adrenaline Rush Adrenaline Rush

All abilities cost 1 AP until the end of the turn, can't use any skills or abilities that cost WP after casting it, Accuracy reduced by 50% and you are Dazed dazed the next turn (5WP)

Issues

The real utility of this skill lies in using 3 AP weapons, which 1) the Berserker is not proficient in, and 2) do not fit the class nor the skill thematically, all but forcing the player into using Berserker as a meta class. This is the first problem: that the skill is not useful to its class outside of a meta build; there is no reason to use it for melee attacks (Vengeance Torso is a much better option in every regard) or with the Nergal hand cannon (an unpopular weapon, that even at double DPS isn't impressive, especially for a capstone ability).

The second problem is that the skill is too effective in meta builds (with Bloodlust + Rapid Clearance/Sneak Attack + Deceptor/Sniper Rifle/Grenade Launcher): even when the meta-Berserker is unable to clear entire maps on its own, it can deal too much damage, trivializing the challenge.

The third problem is that the malus piled on the skill (50% accuracy malus, dazed next turn and can't use WP abilities) in reality further pigeonholes the Berserker into contrived meta builds and prevents certain natural synergies (like Stomp, Tentacle Attack and all Priest active abilities), while the dazed next turn malus simply forces the player into giving all Berserkers the Armored Head mutation.

Suggested change

All abilities until the end of the turn cost -1 AP to a minimum of 1 AP, but cannot gain any WP. Does not work with Quick Aim, Boom Blast or Rage Burst (5WP)

Reasoning: makes the skill useful for Berserker's nominal role, while allowing a much wider range of interesting synergies for multiclass builds (for example, a Heavy/Berserker that can Jet Jump, melee strike and Stomp on the same turn). Clear and easy to understand

Alternative:

After taking a shot with proficient weapon move up to 3 tiles and attack with melee strike or bash for free (5WP)

Infiltrator training.pngInfiltrator

- Proficient with crossbows and spider drones (see complete list here)

- Gain +25% to stealth while undetected


Surprise Attack Surprise Attack

Attacks from behind gain shock damage equal to 3 times the damage dealt (passive)


Deploy Decoy Deploy Decoy

Deploy holographic decoy at the chosen location. The decoy is treated as a real target by all enemies (4WP 1AP)

Spider Drone Pack Spider Drone Pack

Deploy 3 spider drones with one action (2AP)


Vanish.pngVanish

Move within 5 tiles and disappear from view until the end of turn or is revealed by contact with mist (4WP)

Issues

Allows free movement equivalent to 1 AP with 20 Speed and makes achieving stealth trivial. As stealth is the prerequisite for Sneak Attack, it also makes the condition for that skill trivial.

Suggested change

Move within 5 tiles and disappear from view until the end of turn or is revealed by contact with mist (4WP 1AP)

Reasoning: adds a real cost to the skill; as it already allows movement for 1 AP, cost is reasonable

Sneak AttackSneak Attack

Damage dealt while not spotted is increased by 100% (passive)

Issues

There is general agreement that

  1. the damage buff of +100% is too high in general but some of us think it is necessary for the crossbows, which is probably more likely a problem with the weapons itself
  2. it stacks too well with buffs from other skills (Bloodlust, Brawler), perks (Reckless and weapon proficiency perks), researches (Vivisection and Moonbase Data Analysis) and combined with skills that reduce AP cost (Adrenaline Rush, Quick Aim, Boom Blast, Rage Burst and Vengeance Torso); this allows dealing absurd amounts of damage, like 1018 with a Scyther for one hit and 1 AP (multiplier of 3.36), or one- shooting a Scylla, using Rage Burst and a Deceptor
  3. the condition ("not spotted") is trivial, as at most it requires a single casting of Vanish per turn

Together, this

  1. trivializes the challenge
  2. means there are no interesting tactical choices in using this skill, beyond the meta combinations; it's a pure massive damage increase for all attacks as a result of reaching LVL7

Suggested change

In general, nobody is happy with this skill and everybody would prefer if it was replaced with something else.

Nevertheless, here go some suggestions:

While not spotted, attack a target with a proficient direct fire or melee weapon dealing 50% extra damage. Character will be revealed unless weapon is silent (4WP + standard AP cost of firing the weapon)

Reasoning: 1) reduces damage buff, 2) prevents the damage buff from scaling further with Quick Aim, Boom Blast, Adrenaline Rush and Rage Burst, 3) introduces a double cost, of WP and loss of stealth, to make decision to use skill none-trivial

Technician training.png Technician

- Proficient with PDWs, Auto Turrets and Exo-Arms (see complete list here)

Fast use.png Fast Use

The action point cost of medkits, stimpacks and robotic arm abilities is reduced by 1(passive)

Manual control.png Manual Control

Take manual control of a turret or vehicle weapon and shoot at a target (3WP 1AP)

Issues

Using manual control on turrets is a very cheap and reliable way of dealing massive damage, making the game too easy.

There is some discussion as to whether this is due primarily to

  1. Amount of damage that turrets deal and that they have too much ammo
  2. The Technician being able to cast manual control an unlimited number of times, only limited by AP (which can be refunded via Onslaught)
  3. That each device can be activated an unlimited number of times

However, there is a general agreement that to some extent all of these elements contribute to the above-stated issue.

In addition, some players feel that this is also immersion breaking because it unexpectedly stretches out time - why is the device capable of taking an unlimited number of actions if under 'manual control'?

Suggested change

Reduce damage and ammo capacity of all turrets

Take manual control of a turret or vehicle weapon and shoot at a target, limited to one use per turn per device (3WP 1AP)

Reasoning: prevents a device from being activated more than once, more respectful with the integrity of the time-space continuum

Alternative:

Take manual control of a turret or vehicle weapon and shoot at a target, limited to 2 uses per turn (3WP 1AP)

Reasoning: prevents a Technician from spamming the skill, easy to understand

Field medic.png Field Medic

Restore 10 hit points and 10 armor to all body parts of the selected target. Disabled body parts are restored (2WP 2AP)

Remote deployment.pngRemote deployment

Turrets can be thrown in a radius of 10(?) tiles and deployed for 1 AP (passive)

Electric reinforcement.pngElectric reinforcement

Give yourself and allies within 20 tiles a bonus of 20 armor for 1 turn. This effect does not stack (6WP 1AP)

Priest Priest

- Proficient with weapons that deal Virus Damage virus damage (that is, Redeemer Redeemer and Subjugator Subjugator)

- Can use special head mutations, which give them additional abilities


Frenzy

Instil Frenzy frenzy in friendly characters within 20 tiles for 2 turns, increasing their movement by 50% and making them immune to panic (1AP, 4WP)

Issues

in progress

There is general agreement that

  1. the speed buff scales too well with speed of both player and AI characters, making already fast characters too fast. This can make the game too easy (as extreme mobility is one of the main ingredients for a Terminator Build), and sometimes too challenging (some Pandorans are already very fast, and frenzy allows them to unexpectedly traverse the length of the map). Some of us also consider that this is immersion breaking, as even more than "super-hero" it just looks "glitchy" (see Assault/Berserker kitted out for speed with Speed legs, Aksu body armor, Quarterback and Thief perks + Bloodlust + Frenzy casting dash).
  2. it makes the other head mutations much less interesting options by comparison

===Suggested change===:

Instil Frenzy frenzy in friendly characters within 20 tiles for 2 turns, increasing their movement by 50% 5 and making them immune to panic (1AP, 4WP)

Reasoning: making Frenzy a flat bonus would still make the ability very strong, adding the equivalent of 1 AP of movement with max Speed to all friendlies, but it would benefit the low speed characters more

Mind Control Mind Control

Gain control of an enemy in range and with line of sight (WP cost equal to enemy's current WP, 1AP; costs 1-10 WP per turn to maintain, depending on target type)

Induce panic.png Induce Panic

Cause a target to panic if its current WP are less than the Priest (3WP, 1AP)

Minds sense.png Mind Sense

All organic enemies within 15 tiles are automatically revealed (passive)

Psychic ward.png Psychic Ward

Allies within 10 tiles are immune to panic and psychic damage attacks (passive)

Mind Crush Mind Crush

Deal 100 damage to all enemy entities within 10 tiles (6WP, 1AP)