Difference between revisions of "Skills rebalance proposal"
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===Suggested change=== | ===Suggested change=== | ||
− | <code>Instil [[file:frenzied.png|30px|link=status effects#FRENZIED|Frenzy]] [[status effects#FRENZIED|frenzy]] in friendly characters within 20 tiles for 2 turns, increasing their [[Character Development#movement|movement]] by <u><b> <s>50%</s></u></b> <u><b> | + | <code>Instil [[file:frenzied.png|30px|link=status effects#FRENZIED|Frenzy]] [[status effects#FRENZIED|frenzy]] in friendly characters within 20 tiles for 2 turns, increasing their [[Character Development#movement|movement]] by <u><b> <s>50%</s></u></b> <u><b>6</u></b> and making them immune to [[Combat#panic|panic]] (1[[combat#aps|AP]], 4[[character Development#wps|WP]])</code> |
− | <i>Reasoning: making Frenzy a flat bonus would still make the ability very strong, adding the equivalent of 1 AP of movement with max Speed to all friendlies, but it would benefit the low speed characters relatively more than the already fast ones</i> | + | <i>Reasoning: making Frenzy a flat bonus would still make the ability very strong, adding the equivalent of a little more than 1 AP of movement with max Speed to all friendlies, but it would benefit the low speed characters relatively more than the already fast ones</i> |
==[[File:mind_control.png|40px|link=|Mind Control]] <span id="mind control"></span>Mind Control== | ==[[File:mind_control.png|40px|link=|Mind Control]] <span id="mind control"></span>Mind Control== |
Revision as of 11:11, 25 February 2021
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Classes and Skills | |
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Final Mission (Spoiler!) |
Contents
Skills rebalance proposal
Introduction and purpose
This document is solely for discussion purposes among players, primarily in the Community Council. This an attempt at identifying OP skills, describing why they are OP and presenting suggestions.
Summary
- Assault: changes to Ready for Action, Onslaught and Rapid Clearance
- Heavy: problem with War Cry, changes to Boom Blast
- Sniper: changes to Quick Aim
- Berserker: general comment on class as inadequate for melee
- Infiltrator: changes to Sneak Attack
- Technician: changes to Manual Control
- Priest: changes to Frenzy
Belial's list of grievances
as a framework
- #Rapid Clearance
- #Boom Blast
- #Bloodlust
- #Adrenaline Rush
- #Manual Control
- #Onslaught
- #Ready for Action
- #Brawler
- #Quick Aim
- #Sneak Attack
- #Frenzy
- #War Cry: Too easy to cripple enemies from safe spots like through roofs and walls. Too effective vs Skyllas.
Rage Burst: Too effective vs Skyllas, not good vs at all vs multiple smaller enemies. Only effective at very close ranges.
Master Marksman: Very large ACC bonus compared to other sources like Armor and General Perks which have been nerfed in Polaris.
Marked For Death: Too strong on Deceptor with Rage Burst or Scorcher AT with Remote Control.
Destiny: Precision surpassing all sniper weapons in the game. Would that feel okay if used against player?
Gorgon: Damage per AP is too big
Fire: AI commits suicide in fire.
Bionics: Too powerful with almost no drawbacks
Melee weapons: Unless you use Vengeance Torso fall behind Bash in terms of damage.
Perception: Is too high for humans.
Stealth: easy to abuse. Too strong with Sneak Attack.
Will gain/loss: Most skills pay for themself when used to kill enemies.
Nanotech: Makes some enemy weapons completely ineffective.
Cover: Most enemies are melee/psychic/explosive/high mobility - cover does not protect vs majority of opponents.
Acid Cannon: Bad in general, very OP vs Skylla.
Scorcher: Extremely high damage output amplified by Marked for Death and Remote Control.
VENGEANCE TORSO: Very powerful synergy with Rapid Clearance. Makes Synedrion (or NJ?) “The Melee” faction, where it should be disciples
Venom Torso: Poison arm is very weak and losing hand is a huge debuff.
Bash and melee
Issues
In progress
Bash and melee can deal too much damage when compared to other types of attack
Bash (30 STR, using heavy weapon) | Bash (35 STR, using heavy weapon) | Melee (Marduk's Fist) | Melee (Marduk's Fist + Vengeance Torso) | Deceptor | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Base damage per AP | 150 | 175 | 80 | 160 | 140 |
+50% from brawler | 225 | 263 | 120 | 240 | - |
+20% from Close Quarters Specialist | 195 | 210 | 104 | 208 | - |
+ | 255 | 298 | 136 | 272 | - |
+50% from bloodlust | 225 | 263 | 120 | 240 | 210 |
+ + | 330 | 385 | 176 | 352 | 210 |
+10% from reckless | 165 | 193 | 88 | 176 | 154 |
+ + + | 345 | 403 | 184 | 368 | 224 |
+10% from vivisection research | 165 | 193 | 88 | 176 | 154 |
+ + + + vivisection research | 380 | 443 | 203 | 405 | 246 |
+10% from Moon Data analysis | 165 | 193 | 88 | 176 | 154 |
+ + + + vivisection research + Moon Data analysis | 418 | 487 | 222 | 445 | 271 |
+10 damage per attack from mark for death | 160 | 185 | 85 | 170 | 180 |
+ + + + vivisection research + Moon Data analysis + | 428 | 497 | 232 | 455 | 311 |
- Melee can benefit from sneak attack, but not so bash, which means that melee can get can additional +50% ( has to replace either or ), to a maximum multiplier of 3.36
- With Legacy of the Ancients Scyther the damage that can be dealt with 1 AP (using Vengeance Torso) goes up to 1008
Assault
- Proficient with assault rifles and shotguns (complete list here)
Dash
Move up to 1/2 of the movement of the character (3WP and 1AP; limited to 2 uses per turn)
(e.g. with a movement stat of 20, a soldier can move 10 tiles casting )
Return Fire
Shoot back at an enemy when it attacks, provided that character is using a direct-fire projectile weapon with proficiency, and the enemy is within half perception range (passive skill)
Ready for Action
Reloading and inventory management costs 0 AP (passive skill)
Issues
Some of us find it immersion breaking that this skill can be used to allow operatives closely packed together to share a single weapon and to reload it for free. Some of us don't see an issue with this.
For those who do see a problem, the issue is that all manipulation of inventory, whether giving or receiving items is done at 0 AP cost. This is what creates a situation where the operative can get a weapon from soldier A, reload it, give it to solder B, who will fire it, then the operative will take it, reload it, and pass it on to soldier C, without anybody using up any time (or paying AP) for equipment sharing.
Suggested change
Reloading and inventory management of the operative costs 0 AP (passive skill)
Alternative:
Reloading
and, inventory management of the operative and giving items to other characters costs 0 AP (passive skill)
Onslaught
Refunds 2AP to another operative within 10 tiles, can only be used once per turn by the same soldier (cost 4WP and 2AP)
Issues
The same character can be the recipient of multiple castings of the skill by different soldiers ("Cheerleading"). This is immersion breaking, because a single soldier ends up with 8 AP or more (where is that time coming from?), and somewhat OP, in that you can channel AP towards an Uber soldier that can optimize their utility.
Suggested change
Refunds 2AP to another operative within 10 tiles, can only be used once per turn by the same and on the same soldier (cost 4WP and 2AP)
Alternative:
Refunds 2AP to another operative within 10 tiles, can only be used once per turn
by the same on the same soldier (cost 4WP and 2AP)
Reasoning: no reason to stop an operative from casting the skill twice, if each time it is cast on a different soldier
Rapid Clearance
Get back 2 AP for each kill until the end of the turn (cost 5WP)
Issues
The skill can be used to gain more AP than those spent on the kill (particularly when combined with other skills such as Adrenaline Rush, Quick Aim and Boom Blast, and the Vengeance Torso), which results in very long "kill chains", up to cases where an operative can singlehandedly clear the whole map.
This trivializes the challenge and breaks immersion.
Some of us feel that even when the skill does not refund more AP than those spend on the skill, it can still be too strong with high mobility builds that take advantage of damage buffs and skills that reduce AP costs.
Suggested Changes
Until the end of the turn, the next attack after a kill costs 2 AP less
Reasoning: prevents net generation of AP from kills
Alternative:
Until the end of the turn, the next attack after a kill costs 2 AP less, can't use any skills or abilities that cost WP after casting it
Reasoning: skill too strong already, synergies with other skills can be OP
Heavy
- Proficient with machine guns, cannons and grenade launchers (see complete list here)
Brawler
Bash and melee attacks deal 50% more damage (passive skill)
Issues
This skill is not useful to Heavy outside of meta builds, either 'basher' (more on that below) or meta multi-class melee builds where this skill is used to buff melee damage (for example, Assault/Heavy, or Infiltrator/Heavy, either of them in combination with Vengeance Torso).
Bashing can deal too much damage when compared to melee (see #Bash and melee), which is unintuitive, as a proficient and dedicated melee strike should deal more damage than a bash, and when compared to the DPS of a Heavy weapon (more often than not clubbing with a heavy weapon is preferable to shooting with it), and the drawback for bashing - damage to the weapon - is insufficient to compensate for the much higher DPS.
Some of us think that this is because damage to the weapon is not sufficient (25% of damage dealt - 20, for armor of the weapon); as weapons get repaired for free after the mission this drawback would only be effective if there was substantial risk that the weapon would be destroyed. Some of us think that damage to the weapon is not enough of a drawback, as it can be avoided by carrying many weapons.
Summing up, this is another skill (like #Bloodlust and #Adrenaline Rush) that is not useful for the class when played outside of meta and too useful as a meta ingredient.
Suggested change
Some of us feel that the skill should be removed and replaced with something else. It doesn't really fit the sandbox approach where all skills are useful to all classes, since it's only useful for melee. It's also singularly uninteresting, being a straight, unconditional buff to damage. Some of us think that it should be at least moved to Berserker, as it would fit its nominal role.
Just a suggestion for a heavy-oriented skill:
%50 acc boost for heavy weapons, cannot use any skill, need one AP to get out of the ancor stance. Only works with heavy armor
War Cry
Limits the AP of all enemies within 10 tiles to 2 (3WP 1AP)
Problems: it is OP and immersion breaking that the skill affects large Pandorans, particularly Scylla, and that it works through any wall or obstacle.
Boom Blast
Reduces the cost of using explosives by 1 AP and increases their range by 50% until the end of the turn (5WP)
Issues
Explosives can be particularly powerful weapons because they do blast (and typically shred) damage, have area of effect and don't require Line of Sight. They also scale too well with damage buffs, such as those from Sneak Attack and Bloodlust.
This skill allows a single operative to use a grenade launcher and a mounted weapon, or throw up to 4 grenades and use a mounted weapon or shot the Vidar launcher an unlimited number of times (when used together with Ready for Action), in a single turn, at very long range.
It also allows reloading grenade and rocket launchers, and firing Destiny III for 0 AP.
This trivializes the challenge, making the game too easy.
There is general agreement that being able to use explosive weapons (and Destiny III) for 0 AP is most responsible for this.
There is some discussion as to whether the extra 50% range plays a relevant role, or the ability to deliver a large number of explosives at different points on the map very accurately (as with grenades using a high-strength build).
Suggested change
Reduces the cost of using explosives by 1 AP to a minimum of 1 and increases their range by 50% until the end of the turn (5WP)
Reasoning: prevents using mounted weapons or Vidar Launcher for 0 AP
Alternative
The AP cost of the next use of explosives is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1 and their range is increased by 50%, limited to 2 uses per turn (3WP)
Reasoning: prevents using mounted weapons or Vidar Launcher for 0 AP and limits the number of explosive that can be used per turn
Inspire
Killing an enemy grants allies 1 additional WP (passive skill)
Rage Burst
Fire the weapon 5 times in an arc, limited to one use per turn by the same soldier (5WP + standard AP cost of firing the weapon)
Sniper
- Proficient with sniper rifles and pistols (see complete list here).
Extreme Focus
Overwatch cost is reduced by 1 action point(passive skill)
Quick Aim
The AP cost of the next shot with proficient weapon is reduced by 1 (3WP)
Issues
There is general agreement that
- Allowing an unlimited number of 0 AP attacks is bad because they are free attacks, which can make the game too easy. However, some of us think that discretionary (on the player's turn) free attacks are always bad, while some of us think that what's bad is that they are unlimited.
- The skill is too spammable: it can be used any number of times, the cost is easy to recover and there is no reason not to use it every time as a means of increasing damage output by up to a 100% (for 2 AP weapons, or if considering 3AP weapons used twice in the same turn); optimal choice is no choice, no choice means no tactics.
Suggested change
The AP cost of the next shot with proficient weapon is reduced by 1 (3WP), limited to 2 uses per turn
Reasoning: prevents spamming the skill with 1AP weapons to get free attacks, but allows the most common use of the skill to shoot twice with a sniper rifle per turn and keeps a limited synergy with 1 AP weapons; also similar solution to dash, so easy to understand
Alternative
The AP cost of the next shot with proficient weapon is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1(3WP)
Reasoning: prevents getting free attacks altogether, but allows the most common use of the skill to shoot twice with a sniper rifle per turn
Note that some of us feel that these suggestions, though improving the skill overall, don't address the fact that casting it is a "no brainer" because of how easy it is to recover WP in the game.
Master Marksman
Accuracy with a proficient weapon is increased by 30% while there are no spotted enemies within 10 tiles (passive skill)
Weak Spot
Disabling a body part also remove that body part's armor (passive skill)
Mark for Death
Increases damage suffered by the target by 10 from each hit until the end of the turn (4WP)
Berserker
General comment: There seems to be close to universal agreement that Berserker's skillset is uniquely unsuited for its nominal role of melee fighter (see here in my description of the class my personal view on why this is the case)
Armor Break
Next attack will shred an additional 30 armor (4WP)
Close Quarters Evade
Attacks from enemies within 10 tiles deal 25% less damage (passive skill)
Bloodlust
Damage and movement are increased proportionally to the health lost (up to double) (passive)
Issues
There are several problems with this skill, directly connected to the general problem with the class as a whole, in that its skillset is inadequate for its enunciated role (melee fighter).
- There is general agreement that there are problems with the way the skill is triggered and the speed and damage buffs obtained; nobody likes that the damage and speed buffs can be triggered by friendly fire or not healing the Berserker between missions, but for different reasons:
- Some of us don't like that the only way to control the amount of HP lost is through friendly fire/not healing the Berserker between missions, as this makes the skill less useful unless you attack your own operative, which some players are reluctant to do and is immersion breaking (how can the soldier remain under the effects of Bloodlust for an injury suffered a month ago?). At the same time, some of us feel that being able to control the amount of HP lost makes the condition to obtain the benefits of the skill trivial.
- Some of us feel that the game ordinarily doesn't favor having an operative with low HP: it's too risky, as there are no bleed out mechanics, using the skill for melee is a sure way of getting the Berserker killed. However, some of us think that the skill could work for melee as a high risk high reward proposition, but that right now it's an unattractive option because the skill works just as well with ranged attacks without any risk.
- There is also general agreement that the speed and damage buff can be abused in a meta build, particularly using other skills that further increase damage (Sneak Attack, Brawler) or Speed (Frenzy), and those that allow recovering AP (Rapid Clearance and Onslaught), as well as skills that reduce AP cost of attacks (Adrenaline Rush, Boom Blast, Quick Aim and Rage Burst).
- The general feeling is that this skill is not very useful unless employed as an ingredient in a meta-build, in which case it is very much OP.
Suggested change
A variety of very diverse changes may be suggested, but the general consensus is that a serious discussion has to be preceded by a clear indication whether the Berserker class and/or this skill in particular can be geared specifically towards a melee role, or whether it has to stay as it is now; an abstraction that could be potentially useful for any class/build.
Ignore pain
Disabled body parts remain functional. Cannot Panic or be Mind Controlled (passive)
Adrenaline Rush
All abilities cost 1 AP until the end of the turn, can't use any skills or abilities that cost WP after casting it, Accuracy reduced by 50% and you are dazed the next turn (5WP)
Issues
The real utility of this skill lies in using 3 AP weapons, which 1) the Berserker is not proficient in, and 2) do not fit the class nor the skill thematically, all but forcing the player into using Berserker as a meta class. This is the first problem: that the skill is not useful to its class outside of a meta build; there is no reason to use it for melee attacks (Vengeance Torso is a much better option in every regard) or with the Nergal hand cannon (an unpopular weapon, that even at double DPS isn't impressive, especially for a capstone ability).
The second problem is that the skill is too effective in meta builds (with Bloodlust + Rapid Clearance/Sneak Attack + Deceptor/Sniper Rifle/Grenade Launcher): even when the meta-Berserker is unable to clear entire maps on its own, it can deal too much damage, trivializing the challenge.
The third problem is that the malus piled on the skill (50% accuracy malus, dazed next turn and can't use WP abilities) in reality further pigeonholes the Berserker into contrived meta builds and prevents certain natural synergies (like Stomp, Tentacle Attack and all Priest active abilities), while the dazed next turn malus simply forces the player into giving all Berserkers the Armored Head mutation.
Suggested change
All abilities until the end of the turn cost -1 AP to a minimum of 1 AP, but cannot gain any WP. Does not work with Quick Aim, Boom Blast or Rage Burst (5WP)
Reasoning: makes the skill useful for Berserker's nominal role, while allowing a much wider range of interesting synergies for multiclass builds (for example, a Heavy/Berserker that can Jet Jump, melee strike and Stomp on the same turn). Clear and easy to understand
Alternative:
After taking a shot with proficient weapon move up to 3 tiles and attack with melee strike or bash for free (5WP)
Infiltrator
- Proficient with crossbows and spider drones (see complete list here)
- Gain +25% to stealth while undetected
Surprise Attack
Attacks from behind gain shock damage equal to 3 times the damage dealt (passive)
Deploy Decoy
Deploy holographic decoy at the chosen location. The decoy is treated as a real target by all enemies (4WP 1AP)
Spider Drone Pack
Deploy 3 spider drones with one action (2AP)
Vanish
Move within 5 tiles and disappear from view until the end of turn or is revealed by contact with mist (4WP)
Issues
Allows free movement equivalent to 1 AP with 20 Speed and makes achieving stealth trivial. As stealth is the prerequisite for Sneak Attack, it also makes the condition for that skill trivial.
Suggested change
Move within 5 tiles and disappear from view until the end of turn or is revealed by contact with mist (4WP 1AP)
Reasoning: adds a real cost to the skill; as it already allows movement for 1 AP, cost is reasonable
Sneak Attack
Damage dealt while not spotted is increased by 100% (passive)
Issues
There is general agreement that
- the damage buff of +100% is too high in general but some of us think it is necessary for the crossbows, which is probably more likely a problem with the weapons itself
- it stacks too well with buffs from other skills (Bloodlust, Brawler), perks (Reckless and weapon proficiency perks), researches (Vivisection and Moonbase Data Analysis) and combined with skills that reduce AP cost (Adrenaline Rush, Quick Aim, Boom Blast, Rage Burst and Vengeance Torso); this allows dealing absurd amounts of damage, like 1018 with a Scyther for one hit and 1 AP (multiplier of 3.36), or one- shooting a Scylla, using Rage Burst and a Deceptor
- the condition ("not spotted") is trivial, as at most it requires a single casting of Vanish per turn
Together, this
- trivializes the challenge
- means there are no interesting tactical choices in using this skill, beyond the meta combinations; it's a pure massive damage increase for all attacks as a result of reaching LVL7
Suggested change
In general, nobody is happy with this skill and everybody would prefer if it was replaced with something else.
Nevertheless, here go some suggestions:
While not spotted, attack a target with a proficient direct fire or melee weapon dealing 50% extra damage. Character will be revealed unless weapon is silent (4WP + standard AP cost of firing the weapon)
Reasoning: 1) reduces damage buff, 2) prevents the damage buff from scaling further with Quick Aim, Boom Blast, Adrenaline Rush and Rage Burst, 3) introduces a double cost, of WP and loss of stealth, to make decision to use skill none-trivial
Technician
- Proficient with PDWs, Auto Turrets and Exo-Arms (see complete list here)
Fast Use
The action point cost of medkits, stimpacks and robotic arm abilities is reduced by 1(passive)
Manual Control
Take manual control of a turret or vehicle weapon and shoot at a target (3WP 1AP)
Issues
Using manual control on turrets is a very cheap and reliable way of dealing massive damage, making the game too easy.
There is some discussion as to whether this is due primarily to
- Amount of damage that turrets deal and that they have too much ammo
- The Technician being able to cast manual control an unlimited number of times, only limited by AP (which can be refunded via Onslaught)
- That each device can be activated an unlimited number of times
However, there is a general agreement that to some extent all of these elements contribute to the above-stated issue.
In addition, some players feel that this is also immersion breaking because it unexpectedly stretches out time - why is the device capable of taking an unlimited number of actions if under 'manual control'?
Suggested change
Reduce damage and ammo capacity of all turrets
Take manual control of a turret or vehicle weapon and shoot at a target, limited to one use per turn per device (3WP 1AP)
Reasoning: prevents a device from being activated more than once, more respectful with the integrity of the time-space continuum
Alternative:
Take manual control of a turret or vehicle weapon and shoot at a target, limited to 2 uses per turn (3WP 1AP)
Reasoning: prevents a Technician from spamming the skill, easy to understand
Field Medic
Restore 10 hit points and 10 armor to all body parts of the selected target. Disabled body parts are restored (2WP 2AP)
Remote deployment
Turrets can be thrown in a radius of 10(?) tiles and deployed for 1 AP (passive)
Electric reinforcement
Give yourself and allies within 20 tiles a bonus of 20 armor for 1 turn. This effect does not stack (6WP 1AP)
Priest
- Proficient with weapons that deal virus damage (that is, Redeemer and Subjugator)
- Can use special head mutations, which give them additional abilities
Frenzy
Instil frenzy in friendly characters within 20 tiles for 2 turns, increasing their movement by 50% and making them immune to panic (1AP, 4WP)
Issues
There is general agreement that
- the speed buff scales too well with speed of both player and AI characters, making already fast characters too fast. This can make the game too easy (as extreme mobility is one of the main ingredients for a Terminator Build), and sometimes too challenging (some Pandorans are already very fast, and frenzy allows them to unexpectedly traverse the length of the map). Some of us also consider that this is immersion breaking, as even more than "super-hero" it just looks "glitchy" (see Assault/Berserker kitted out for speed with Speed legs, Aksu body armor, Quarterback and Thief perks + Bloodlust + Frenzy casting dash).
- it makes the other head mutations much less interesting options by comparison
Suggested change
Instil frenzy in friendly characters within 20 tiles for 2 turns, increasing their movement by
50% 6 and making them immune to panic (1AP, 4WP)
Reasoning: making Frenzy a flat bonus would still make the ability very strong, adding the equivalent of a little more than 1 AP of movement with max Speed to all friendlies, but it would benefit the low speed characters relatively more than the already fast ones
Mind Control
Gain control of an enemy in range and with line of sight (WP cost equal to enemy's current WP, 1AP; costs 1-10 WP per turn to maintain, depending on target type)
Induce Panic
Cause a target to panic if its current WP are less than the (3WP, 1AP)
Mind Sense
All organic enemies within 15 tiles are automatically revealed (passive)
Psychic Ward
Allies within 10 tiles are immune to panic and psychic damage attacks (passive)
Mind Crush
Deal 100 damage to all enemy entities within 10 tiles (6WP, 1AP)